How To Make Your Podcast Intro Even Better

Connect with my guests:
Nicole Engelbrecht 
Paulo Dias
Terence Mentor

Sean: Welcome.
It's very good to have you here. This is the very first of The Podcast Catalyst panel discussions, and I am super stoked to have a really great panel together. My name is Sean Loots.
Of course, I'm representing The Podcast Catalyst in this scenario, or shall we say TPC, going forward, because it's such a long name.
And essentially the TPC, or The Podcast Catalyst is looking to help African podcasters, both creators and fans find their new favorites. That could be a favorite creative, it could be their favorite show. It could be their new favorite tool or technique or workflow. It's all about upskilling and teaching people along the way, the things that we've learned as we've built our podcasts. Um, and amongst us today, we have script writers, we have hosts, we have audio editors, video editors, and I'm just talking about myself right now.
There is so much skill and depth in this panel and I'm very excited to get into it, of course. This particular panel discussion is all about introductions and making the most of that introduction in your podcast. And I'm going to butcher this because being a panel discussion, I could just do a great introduction for each of my guests. But instead, I'm going to hand it over to them rather to do their own introductions.

I will say that each of my guests today is a nominated finalist for the African podcast and voiceover. or Voice Artist Awards for 2023. And I'm very thrilled to have Terence Mentor, Paulo Dias, as well as Nicole Engelbrecht, who I like to refer to as the queen of true crime South Africa podcasting. And I think since we are in August and Women's Month, and not only for that reason, but if Nicole, if you wouldn't please introduce yourself first and give us a background of what you've been up to over the last couple of years.

Nicole: Sure. So thank you for having me on. I really Yeah, that's a Queen of True Crime title has been bandied about a bit and some people drop the true bits and just call me the Queen of Crime, which is something completely different. So I am the host and creator of True Crime South Africa, as well as I live through this, which hopefully I'll be relaunching soon and then a couple of Showmax companion podcasts.

Sean: Amazing. I am thrilled to hear that we're seeing more and more companion podcasts come out of South Africa and the African continent. I know it's been a big thing in the Northern hemisphere for a very long time. And I think lots of South African podcasters and African podcasters will be here glad to hear that the scope is developing in that direction for us as well. Nicole, thank you so much. I co host a show with Terence. So Terence, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask Paulo to introduce himself next.

Paulo: Do you wanna make $5,000 from your podcast? Keep listening to find out how. You see, now that is an introduction for a podcast, right? Tease them in. That is. Trick them with money. I am Paulo Dias. I am a podcast host of two podcasts. One is That 80's Show, which is about the 80's. I just can't let go. The other is Working Title FC, which is a football podcast. And for my day job, I work for a company called Ultimate Media, who are... Audio marketing specialist, so we like work with brands to get the best out of the advertising across radio, streaming, podcasting, or anything else that has to do with audio. Fantastic, yeah, you got a pretty cool job, I'm not gonna lie. I like the title.

Sean: What's your job title again, Paulo?
Paulo: The head of audio innovation.
Sean: Yeah, you see, now it doesn't get much better than that as far as I'm concerned. I do have a friend whose job title he's given himself, is Chief Troublemaker, which can go one of two ways. So, yeah, nonetheless. Mr. AfroDaddy himself, Terence Mentor, it's awesome to have you on this call as well. Won't you please give everybody a roundup of all the things that keep you busy?

Terence Mentor: Well, I am possibly the most boring person on this panel right now, but it's fine because this guy has a secret and what it is will shock you. That's also a little hook-bitch. Oh, tease, love. My name is Terence Mentor. I am a blogger, YouTuber, vlogger, podcaster. If it's content, I try to make it specifically focusing on fathers and the role of fathers in this country and parenting in general, but also I make the best podcast by dads for dads called Have You Asked Your Dad with my man Sean Loots right over there as well. So that's some of the things that keep me busy when I'm not actually making money.

Sean: Beautiful. You guys, you really do introduce yourselves very well. And so I don't know, maybe we should give you a round of applause. Something along those lines might be helpful to this extent anyway. So I'm playing with all sorts of tools now on Riverside as well. So we'll see how that goes through the panel discussion. Okay. So introductions of ourselves out of the way. Yes, I've said I'm the voice and the face and the writing behind the podcast catalyst. I'm also involved with a variety of other podcasts. Um, but that's not for here and now, now we want to get into introductions. And the reason I went with this as a very first panel discussion is actually back on the back of Terence and I having a conversation of, are we doing a good introduction with our own podcast?
And having served as a judge recently for the African Podcast and Voice Artists Awards, I've listened to over a hundred podcasts in the space of a week and a half. So I listened to a variety of different ways of introducing things. And some I thought were really good and some I thought were lacking, which made me wonder, is there a stock standard way of getting the best out of your listening, uh, listener experience and making sure that they are hooked and grabbed and carried through, into the rest of the podcast. And does that differ then from one genre to the next and what techniques have the three of you used and tried and tested over the years with your various podcasts?

As a starting point, I think podcast introductions are probably the same or similar to when you're doing an introduction in person, when you meet a new person or you introduce someone you know to another person, you go, this person does X, Y, Z. You try and sell them as best you can.
Nicole, I know you've struggled with the title of Queen of True Crime South Africa, and it's been bandied about and changed and so forth. I know you've also... grappled with this idea of selling, so to speak, crime in South Africa. How then do you go about trying to introduce a podcast to a brand new listener? Obviously, they've tuned in, they're listening to the podcast. What is that introduction process for you? How do you script that? How do you think that through?

Nicole: So it's been a process that's evolved. So for me, there's been two aspects to it. Hooking them into the story that I'm about to tell them. And then also finding some time in those first few minutes of the podcast to give them all the bits that I want to draw them further into the community of the podcast, which is the socials and the Patreon and all of that. And so it's been, it's, it's evolved for me in terms of. In the beginning, because I had zero podcasting experience, I sort of took my leads from other true crime podcasts that I thought were similar to how I wanted to be seen. So sort of ethical true crime storyteller, that sort of thing. And a lot of them were leading in with clips of news coverage or trial stuff, but these were... US and UK podcasts, which doesn't work for South Africa because you often don't get that stuff yet. So like first few episodes, I started with that and then I figured out that I needed to have a way of drawing them in that I could control better. That would be standardized throughout. So what I've done since sort of episode six, seven, which I'm now on episode 125, is I've created an almost sort of very short narrative introduction scene setter, picking one specific point of tension in the episode and sort of drawing them into the episode in that way. But I actually write that and then narrate it myself. So that's sort of what I've follow me on Facebook and all of that stuff. Yeah, and then completely opposite side of the spectrum, Paolo, if you're talking music, there isn't really a tension point, or is there? Are you creating a tension point somewhere in your show as a hook for the introduction? How do you like to introduce the podcast? So on the music podcast, it's, you know, I think this also lends to your individual style of a show. And I think a lot of it's gonna be like, Well, it depends on this and it depends on that. So on a music podcast, we kind of try to link in with a cheesy joke about a part of a song or a song name or a song title or something like that, because that's built a little bit of a brand for the show. So as a listener comes in and my co-host doesn't know that I'm gonna do it or what I'm gonna say, so it's very much off the cuff and that either goes right or wrong, but it's that setup of now going 150 odd episodes. have pretty much all started that way. So there's an expectation of like, what's gonna come out now. So that's kind of like a little bit of a brand in itself. If it works, it gets a great response. When it doesn't work, we work with it to go, okay, well that sucked and didn't work. And it leads into a little bit of the content. But ultimately it goes like, we've just always been doing that. So let's just keep going with it and see where it lands each episode. And have you tried similar things then with Working Title FC when it comes to a sporting podcast? So a couple of, you know, with that one in particular, because we record in studio all the time, I hit record about three minutes before we actually start the show and try to get that natural conversation between us. And sometimes it's usable and sometimes it's not, but it kind of gives that insight into like, because that's the tone of the show, it's friends sitting around talking about sport, right? like a tried and trusted concept. But it goes like, we could say anything, and that moment goes, okay, do we say anything? And then kind of waiting for that moment, waiting, and when I feel they've said something right, then I fire up the music, and then we go into the show. So that's kind of how I do that one. It's very seldom related to sports, but it showcases our personality, and that kind of behind the scenes, because we wanna create there that, what we've always tried to do there, it's like when you're sitting in a pub, and somebody around you starts speaking sports. You could speak about anything and it gives that sense of, oh, you're part of our world, we're not gonna be too polished, we're gonna let you in. That natural transition as a conversation starts and goes off in a particular direction. Terrence, you and I have tried a variety of things and most recently kind of live streaming, which has meant that the introduction is very short and almost non-existent. Clue us in, the things that you were thinking in the beginning when we started doing Have You Asked Your Dad? So I think my first thought was always audience first. What is the audience experiencing? What is their flow through the podcast? And something that I've always realized, something that annoys me in other podcasts I listen to is, you know, when you see that, oh, this podcast is saying, interview with Sean Lutz, and then the first five minutes of the podcast is introducing who the guest is, as if you don't know who the guest is. It's like, I know who the guest is. It's in the title of the podcast. Just get to the interview part. I'm here for the interview with Sean Lutz. I'm not here to hear your preamble about Sean Lutz. I think that's a throwback to, you know, it's a holdover from radio days, from more traditional media where people are listening and they might not exactly know what's coming next. And it's, you know, we were all taught in school with your Aurels and Mondalunga to, you know, say what you're going to say, tell them what you're going to say, say what you're going to say, and then tell them what you've just said. And right. I'm not sure if that works in the podcast space. I'm not sure if it works where people are electing to actively listen to their, to this particular bit of content. Um, and then also the thought was, you know, we're not, I mean, I think you're amazing, but we're not the biggest names in the country or the world. People aren't coming because our name brand has that recognition that pulls people in. people aren't coming just to like hang out with Sean and Terrence. They're coming to engage with whatever topic we're talking about or whatever guests we have. So again, it's like, do we need, does our particular podcast need a five to 10 minute intro where we're just chatting about our day or about a week? I don't think that's the space, but there are other podcasts that do require that. There are podcasts where that works well and maybe that's where taste and maturity comes into it to decide what version of intro you need. Yeah, and I think we're gonna say it probably a couple of times, sorry, Paolo, that depending on the podcast and depending on your style, you're probably gonna come up with a different kind of introduction. Paolo, what were you gonna say on the back of Terrence? I mean, Terrence, to that point, like, there are so many episodes where I don't even introduce myself. I go through and I go, I don't even say my name. And it kind of goes because it doesn't matter, actually, because I feel you're not there for me. You're there because you either like the person we're interviewing or you... something caught your eye that you want to come into. It's not necessarily for me, it's just you found that, oh, you like this information, we just happen to be bringing it. So you're 100% right, it's less about what we like and more about what the listener's into. And finding a smooth way of getting them hooked in the very beginning to stay listening as an avid fan of narrative style interview podcasts. Off the top of my head things like terrible Thanks for asking or a heavyweight with Jonathan Goldstein Jonathan does this thing with every single episode He starts with a telephone call. I still can't tell whether or not they're scripted But the episode starts you hear a phone ring somebody picks up on the other side They have a quick banter, invariably it's a joke or a silly comment. The person on the other side of the phone ends up laughing and then they go into the episode and every single time I hear it, I smile or I giggle or I laugh and immediately I'm drawn in to the rest of the episode. And for me, finding that thing that stylized to my podcast, I haven't figured out how to do that just yet. Uh, for some assembly required, I've also experimented with different ways of doing introductions. It's a lot shorter and sharper now. I try and tell a very brief story as to how it connects to who my guest is. And invariably I don't say the guest's name until I say, hello, Nicole, welcome to the show. Um, so unless you, you know, you're following it in that sense.

Sean: on that note, Nicole, could we play the introduction of one of your episodes, if you don't mind. Um, just to get a sense of what Nicole was referring to earlier in terms of scripting and then narrating the introduction before an episode of true crime, South Africa. Nicole is kindly supplied us with this. Hopefully it works. “He was going to continue chasing her for the rest of her life. Nothing she'd done had made any difference. And now, he'd hit her where it hurt the most. He'd harmed her family. As she punched the seat belt button and it released, she looked at her mother one last time and then opened the car door. She would not give him the pleasure of cowering from him again. This is True Crime South Africa. I'm Nicole Engelbracht, and you're listening to episode 122, The Murder of Leandre Joechels.”

Sean: I mean, I'm drawn in. I like, I wanna know what happens to the rest of that story.

Terence: Can we just listen to that episode? Do we have to do the rest of this conversation?

Sean: Can we just also point out how clever that was because she said episode 122, which means I know exactly which episode I need to go and find. Paulo, she also said her name, which may be going forward. I'd like to suggest that you say yours in your podcast.

Paulo: We're about the music, right? It's about the music that we're selling is not about us.

Terence: The other great thing about that intro that I, that I like, sorry, it's just, is, is specifically with, with those stories that are kind of timeless. You know, whenever you listen to that episode, it's the, unless there's been a huge update to that particular story, you know, it's still relevant. And if someone has sent you that podcast, because like, Oh, this is something that I might find interesting. You immediately know, Oh my word, I have 121 episodes that I need to go back and catch up on. I like this. Let me go back over the catalog. Um, whereas I think for us, for us, without our kind of, we don't do an intro. We just kind of like, Hey, Sean, okay. This is what we're talking about. If you get sent that, you might not realize that this is an established podcast that's been going around for the last few months or last few years. So. I'm learning in this panel.

Sean: That's where we're going. Cop that idea.

Paulo: I think there's, you know, so the kind of information you get out of podcasting isn't as vast as something you get out of YouTube, for example. So there's, I mean, there is a formula to what you did. And what Nicole's doing is very formulaic. And you kind of go like in other social media, other platforms, when you're doing content in a digital space, you've kind of got like 30 seconds or so. There's the... Accepted wisdom is 30 seconds. And if you've not hooked someone in your first three seconds, you're absolutely done. So that first three seconds of branding, so whatever it is, whether it's a voice, which is Nicole, you've got that voice, you've got that very specific sound. So that kind of drags me in. Then you've got the next 30 seconds to kind of go, okay, this is my promise to you over the next 30 minutes or half an hour, whatever. And then each one minute after that, you kind of got to fulfill on that promise. So even, I mean, it's very formulaic what's done there. And I don't say formulaic in that you're painting by numbers, but it goes, there's a very specific structure you've got there that tells me, here's what's happening. And I know, having listened to your episodes, that that's what you do. You've got that opening, hey, I know this is what, I know this is who I'm listening to. This is the promise they're making me. And that just constant reinforcements of that promise over the next 30 minutes is why people keep going. Let me listen longer, let me listen longer, let me listen longer.

Nicole: I think interestingly, what I've noticed is, um, and I don't know if it's a true crime genre thing, but my listeners seem to have adapted themselves to the formula, to the scripts, to the sort of templates I've, I've tend to follow each week. So if something changes, they notice, they notice if I change the music in the background, or if I don't include a little that I usually include, which is quite nice.

Sean: Yeah, on the back of what Paulo was also saying in terms of formula, there is a lot of talk around where to place certain things in your show. And a lot of us are creating independently and there's a lot of information being thrown our ways and we don't quite know which to do first. Um, I think a takeaway here for everybody that's watching is to go experiment, play with it because you'll figure it out over time. You'll find the style that you like. You'll find the, the formula that works for you. In saying that though, where do we consider the best places to talk about things that we want to make people to remember?
So not only the podcast and listening through, but Nicole gave us the episode number. She also gave us her name in that intro. Um, both Terrence and I, when we do Have You Asked Your Dad, we might try and come up with some funny quip, but that's about it. And then we continue. Um, what about call to action? What about finding you on socials? Uh, Nicole, you've mentioned your Patreon. What would you do, Paulo? Coming from an audio innovation space and obviously working radio and podcasting and all of those things. What would your strongest suggestion be for including what you want your audience to do? Where would you put that? In an introduction?

Paulo: You know, I always let the data decide because I think there is like, you know, those of us who come from a radio background, they say, you know, radio is, you know, majority, you know, it's majority science with a little bit of magic. And What I tend to look at is, so there's the podcasts that I personally do and then I do podcasts for brands and when podcasts for brands, they want certain messages in certain places. And I think you kind of gotta, then you gotta analyze your data because you'll start seeing where your audience drops off for whatever reasons, you know? And it's about understanding where they go in. It's kind of like if you stick to the same structure, you're gonna see a pattern and then that's gonna dictate. I think with a branded podcast, you kind of want to get in very early because people understand it's a brand and I don't think they have the patience to stay the whole way. So you kind of want to get into the content quickly rather than selling because I think you've done the selling job, they understand that it's a brand they're listening to and you don't need to push it down their throat and I would maybe leave the kind of sell for the end. But on your personal stuff or on like unbranded or kind of like just interest stuff, I kind of... look at going earlier because you want to maximize your biggest audience. But you know, your decision is going to come based on your data. Go look at your analytics and understand where your audience are coming in and going out and use that as the ideal time to make that decision.

Sean: Terence, I know you do a lot of looking at data and looking at numbers and, and paying attention over time. We don't do it every single day because that's, you know, you're going to drive yourself mad - for mental health reasons, don't do that every single day. What are the types of intros you've heard others do that you think work really well? What are the types of things that hook you?

Terence: So it depends, as we've been saying all the time, depends on the podcast. There are some podcasts that I come to because the name, the person who's hosting, I really enjoy. So Conan O'Brien needs a friend. they have like a 10 to 15 minute chat between him and his and his co-hosts. But that's because they're three really funny people. And the conversation goes into really crazy, funny, improv-y ways. And that's the kind of style that's, I enjoy that kind of conversation. Um, if someone else was doing that, there are other podcasts like, uh, Mark Maron's podcast where he does like literally like 15 minutes of talking about whatever depressing thing he's going through in his life for that week. And I literally skipped through it. Like the only reason why I will, I will stay that long or try and skip through this because he generally has great guests. Um, but if, if I did not know the guest, if I didn't know who Mark Maron was, I would have, he would have lost me years ago. Um, right. So, so I think you really have to be, I think when someone is self aware enough to know I am a funny person or I'm not a funny person, I'm not, I'm not the draw card. Yeah. Um, when someone has put effort into selling, into like making me aware why this is important. So like the example from Nicole, it's very clear why this is a interesting, important, um, insightful story. And from the outset, I got it. Um, I got to go. Um, the other thing that really, I really like is when there's a little almost like trailer of the conversation that's happening, that's coming. So literally like just one line. that comes out of a conversation midway through and it's like, Oh, okay. This is where, this is where we're going. And I want to figure out how we get there. So, so that's the, that's the other thing. And finally, the other kind of intro I really love, I love science podcasts. So when the interest is like, how do our brains work? We are on a journey to figure that out. And then boom, this is the science podcast. And then they start the conversation. So, so that's the thing that I, uh, that's the way I kind of Those are the kind of versions I like, but just off the conversation around the analytics and looking at the data, I think it's also very important to know what questions you're asking before you attack the data because different podcasts have different goals. For Have You Asked Your Dad, a big goal of ours is audience retention, right? We want people to listen right through. We're not really that worried about click-throughs. We're not really worried about promoting a brand or promoting any other products. We don't have any advertisers just yet, you know, so there's no like, affiliate links that we want, we're not promoted. So, you know, all of our stuff, all of the links to Instagram stuff come at the very end because we don't want any roadblocks whatsoever. But if your podcast is part of a larger marketing campaign or a larger brand that you're developing, and it's just one aspect of it, then like Paulo was saying, yeah, you want that at the beginning, and you might not be measuring retention. You might not care that someone gets to the end of your podcast. You might more care that someone is clicking that link through and seeing your website or whatever. So making sure you know what the question is and what metrics answer that question is also crucial.

Sean: Yeah, that's a very good point. With regards to the audio elements around an introduction. Now this is where I've played a little bit with Some Assembly Required specifically. I've done the... clip out something from the interview and throw it at the beginning. I've done the small introduction about who my guest is and how that ties to my daughter's story, because then that still brings it back to home about who I am. I've done the, very short synopsis of a story that's leading into whatever the interview is going to be. I'm not even 16 interviews in for Some Assembly Required. So I've, I've maybe run the gambit too fast and experimented too quickly. But what I really do enjoy about putting an introduction together and maybe, um, Paulo, as well as Nicole, because you're doing I know you do a lot of your own editing, yourselves, the addition of special effects, um, what do we call them? Sort of audio enhancements. How important is that then for a hobbyist for the guy that's doing a little bit of editing on their own, they're putting their podcast together on the bare bones, how important do you think it is to add just a little bit of extra in retaining, listeners?

Paulo: So my radio days were spent in the production department working on imaging packages and jingles and voiceovers and all that for the station. So for me, that audio accompaniment becoming kind of that, we used to call it that the sound of the station, and all of us kind of came from the same radio group at one point, so we know what they're talking about, right? So the sound of the station, kind of we looked at it as its own presenter. So if you had your breakfast show, afternoon drop, the sound of the station was its own. So. Just I know that and I know what it like plants in a person's head. So for me, I find it crucial to go your music, your sound, your voiceover that you're using, and unfortunately I have access to that, that I can go, this is my imaging brand. That's the first thing people, nine times out of 10, will encounter about my podcast is understanding that kind of sonic relationship they're gonna have. So I put a lot of time in that music research. I've had tracks custom made for my for some of my podcasts, I make sure I get a high quality voiceover when I do use it because that's just what I like and what I know about. But spending time thinking about like that first three seconds that people are gonna listen to you, that's your brand. More so than when your voice comes in, more so than your content. It's like what do I sound like? It's like when you walk into a store and you hear something and that store is either a good experience, a bad experience, whatever it is, you're gonna decide to walk out too loud or whatever. And I spent a lot of time going like, this is your first engagement with us, what's your experience? Because then that's gonna dictate how you go forward. Nicole, I definitely wanna hear what you have to say. When you talk about Sonic logo and Sonic branding and imaging, those were the words that I was looking for. So thank you for filling in my lack of vocabulary there. And you're quite right, if I walk into a store and it doesn't smell great, I leave. So similarly, understanding that all of your senses are at play. And when it comes to podcasting, it's your ears over anything else. Uh, so getting that right is, I feel quite important. Uh, currently listening to a podcast from a Novel called The Girlfriends. And they have such a cool little simple way of keeping their sonic branding going throughout the entire episode. It doesn't really deviate. They've got the similar sort of tone and vibe throughout the entire episode. It's difficult to do as a solo one-man band hobbyist podcaster, but I do think it's quite important. Nicole, how do you feel?

Nicole: Yeah, so I think this was something that I approached quite, you know, with a bit of trepidation because I had zero audio skills, you know, I was coming into this not knowing what I was doing. So, you know, learning everything or trying to keep it really basic in the beginning. understanding that I needed an intro and I needed outro music. That has remained the same since the beginning and I think certainly that little clip of music that I use has definitely become synonymous with True Crime South Africa. So the song that I use is actually a Prime Circle song which I use that little bit with their written permission. And the song is called Evidence which ties quite nicely into the theme. And then again, along the years, you know, as I've gone along, I've tried different things, you know, at one point I thought, is it just my voice? Is that enough? Do I need some music in the background? And what I've inevitably gone back to is what do I like as a podcast listener for that genre? Sure. And you know, so again, it's very much genre based. comedy podcasts, conversation podcasts, you can have lots of sounds and noises and different types of music in between clips. But I think if you are trying to create the type of true crime content that I am trying to create, it also needs to, doesn't need to be super serious, but you know, there are true crime podcasts that have sound effects with squeaking doors and blowing wind. And some people like that stuff, but it's not something to me that's a little bit too much on the theatrical side. And so I've personally chosen not to include stuff like that. Yeah. A couple, probably about 50 episodes ago, I started just at the end, including some background music when I sort of pay tribute to the victims, which is how I end every episode. And that's become very popular. And again, some people have reached out and said, we don't like it. And I said, well, I like it and most people like it. So sorry about that. So for me, it was really about keeping it simple, but the podcast that I listened to that are outside of the true crime genre, many times I will go and search the theme song to see if I can download it because I like it so much. So I think, you know, that's, it is really a really critical part of the entire package.

Sean: Yeah, yeah. Sonic branding, I think, does go a long way. And I think having listened to the number of podcasts in a very short space of time that I did from across the continent, the one thing that I would like to see as many podcasters do as possible is when they do an intro to differentiate the very beginning from their content. If it is going to be a conversational kind of podcast, I just want to know that we've now started with the content. Um, I've listened to financial podcasts for argument's sake that just, they start and they just keep going and I don't know the difference between my bulls and my bears in the first place. So if I could just have something that says we're now going to talk about this and we're not going to talk about that. I think the easiest way to do that is some form of audio. I want to say intervention, but a little bit of extra, um, goes a long way from a listener perspective. So to your point, as a listener of podcasts, what do you enjoy? And can you emulate that as best as possible when you are a one-man band, when you are recording and editing and doing it all yourself? It is a lot. Many people forget the number of skills that a podcaster has under their belt, and this is a very good time to remind everybody. We have a lot, we can contribute a lot.

Terence: Yeah, I just off that particular thing about the complexity of the multiple roles that a single podcaster has to take up. I think for anyone listening to this conversation, you have three very experienced podcasters and Sean. No, you have four very experienced podcasters who've all been doing this for a while, also have radio experience, and we're still working through this and developing it. I think the working on the introduction can also be a major hurdle that maybe some people can't overcome to actually just get started with making the podcast. And so I just also want to warn that perfect is the enemy of good. So just if you're feeling overwhelmed about this whole intro issue, just do what you can and get it done. And eventually you will get it. get there. Your taste will come into play. You'll find your own flow and your own rhythm. But it's not something that you have to have perfectly waxed before you release your podcast for the first time.

Sean: Yeah, I think that's definitely a very good point. And to that extent, think about it. Put some thought into it. It doesn't have to be right for the very first episode, but do consider how you're starting your podcast. And I think that's a nice way to kind of bring us to closing remarks.
Nicole, is there anything else maybe specifically that you'd like to highlight when it comes to creating the introduction or starting your podcast, especially for those that are finding their feet still and putting their episodes together and really developing their podcast?

Nicole: I really echo what Terence said, and I've seen that in other podcasters that I've tried to help them start their podcast is, you get this, you know, don't fall into the trap of that sort of analysis paralysis. And, you know, I can't do it now because it's not exactly right. It is going to evolve. You know, one of the things that my listeners say to me is they love listening. Some of them will go back to episode one and start listening again, because they love listening to me as a podcast, they're having evolved with the podcast. and how the podcast has changed and little bits and pieces have changed and improved. And that's going to happen with your introduction, it's going to happen with every single part of your podcast if you're doing it right. Because it's going to be great in the beginning and it can be even better six months a year down the line. So get started, definitely put some thought into it. but understand that there is always gonna be an evolution.

Sean: Yeah, and once you've crossed that pod fade threshold and you're into that new invigorated refreshed space, things do start to look a lot rosier and a lot shinier. Paula, anything else you'd like to add?

Paulo: So I've heard Nicole talk about that evolution with her listeners and having spoken about it and the feedback from the listeners. And I think, but ultimately it's because at some point, Nicole has done what I think everyone should do. You've made your listener a promise, and you've stuck to it. You've told them that this is what we're gonna talk about, or this is what I'm gonna give you, and you gave it to them. And whatever your kind of evolution, whatever style you've done it through, you've just kept doing that. And I think that as long as you say, here's my promise to you, and stick to it, you're gonna keep people with you. And if you are one of those podcasters who likes to ramble on for 15 minutes and have... completely inconsequential conversations about anything. If you insist that you're gonna do that, make sure that there are breaks at every 30 second point, that when a listener does skip through your inane chatter, that they land on something that they're interested in, right, because that's what we do. If we have got to a point that we think we're so funny, let's just make sure that we give people an out at like 30 seconds or a minute to one minute 30, where they can just skip through and get to what they're actually there for. But I think ultimately, Promise you'll listen to something and commit to it through your episode and they'll stay with you.

Sean: Perfect, perfect. Thanks, Paulo. Terence, any more, any other thoughts still in the Afro there that you wanna share with us?

Terence: Just off what Paulo said, maybe we should all in our show notes as a matter of principle put in actual podcast starts at this time. Yeah. People can just skip to that point. I just think the last thing I wanna just encourage people to do is that, to think about is. If someone has actually got to the point of downloading your podcast and listening to it, you've won them. You've already won. Like just that act is, it's not them putting on a radio and listening idly by. Like they have to make an active choice to do that. That's already a big win. And like Paulo is saying, just don't lose them at that point by breaking the promise. So I've learned a lot. This has been great. Thank you for hosting, Sean.

Sean: Only a pleasure. And I hope everybody else is watching also continues to learn and to continue to grow through The Podcast Catalyst. You can of course find Paulo, and Nicole, and Terence include their details and you can read through the transcription as well if you prefer.

Nonetheless, thanks guys. Thanks so much for your time. And I look forward to doing more of these as the as time goes by and we're going to try and play out with some music because what's an outro without some music, right? Yeah!